How do we get people to help in saving site.

Before anyone gets upset or stressed and thinking that they will have to leave Fatcat. Please know that
Mufasa is reading all the suggestions that are being made and taking everything into consideration. He
wants a plan that will keep this site running for many years to come.
So please just wait and see what he comes up with.

QUOTE FROM GATEKEEPER
well said i cant afford to send 10dollar a month at the moment so if this is gonna be a pay to play site guess im
gone i guess according to some other comments/suggestions in this thread


GATEKEEPER, NOBODY HAS TO PAY DONATION.  As I posted earlier on the old forums,
ONLY FOR THOSE WHO CAN!!!!  

E1 @ fatcat is entitled to play regardless of donations.
I post a donation game thread stating this!!!

Please stay and play with good friends.

huggs
ky

Yes... pay to play for the purpose of gambling is prohibited in the U.S., but FC is not a gambling site in that it does not pay out anything for winning. Perhaps the term "pay to play" was used incorrectly in this instance. An annual subscription, or membership fee would be more in describing what we could do at FC, which IS legal in the U.S., that could be paid in monthly installments. I'm not wholly against relying on donations for now, but when the donations begin to slow down to a trickle, we'd be right back here again having this very same discussion. And of course, Mufasa would have the ability to waive the fees on a case by case basis.

toto2 wrote:

Yes... pay to play for the purpose of gambling is prohibited in the U.S., but FC is not a gambling site in that it does not pay out anything for winning. Perhaps the term "pay to play" was used incorrectly in this instance. An annual subscription, or membership fee would be more in describing what we could do at FC, which IS legal in the U.S., that could be paid in monthly installments. I'm not wholly against relying on donations for now, but when the donations begin to slow down to a trickle, we'd be right back here again having this very same discussion. And of course, Mufasa would have the ability to waive the fees on a case by case basis.  

Toto  I do understand why you were suggesting the 'pay to play' but honestly think that this will cause too much headaches for this site and Mufusa and would not now, or in the foreseeable future, be a road, to which Fatcat should travel down.  If you read the excerpt below that I have copied from a site geared up to start online poker sites---it might make you understand the legal ramifications of what you are suggesting apparent.  Whilst I understand that in essence this would still be a free site as such....legally  it is a gray area...and the site would need only one complaint to the right people...that could cause all sorts of legal nightmares for both Mufusa and Fatcat...something that none of us would wish to happen.  Therefore, I see no point in persisting with the idea of compulsory donations....unless of course the US changes its stance on gambling...and that seems way off yet


Casino Gaming for Money
The legality of offering online casino gaming for money is gray, at best. It is regulated to some degree by almost every country. In the United States many politicians would like to ban it completely.

By its legal definition, gambling is any activity that involves a prize, consideration, and chance. The prize can be anything of value including but not limited to cash. Consideration is what the player must pay to enter, and chance refers to a random (versus skill-based) outcome. Since playing online casino games for money has all 3 elements, it is clearly gambling. To operate legally, an online casino should be operated and hosted offshore, and it should not take bets from jurisdictions where it is prohibited. Usually this means focusing on the large and growing international market.

The amount you spend on incorporation, server hosting and licensing depends on several factors. You can incorporate in a Caribbean country for less than US$3,000 plus roughly US$400 annually. For hosting, a good colocated or dedicated server with a reasonable amount of bandwidth can be found for around US$500 per month.

In Canada, a gambling license can also be obtained from the Mohawk Council of Kahnawake, and hosting can be found in Kahnawake as well. Licensing costs roughly US$20k up front plus an additional US$10k annually. At time of writing there are over 240 online casinos licensed by Kahnawake, including the 7 Sultans casino.

Sites which do not accept real money wagers from players typically do not require licensing or offshore hosting. So if you plan to start a prize site, an affiliate portal or skill based site, dedicated hosting should only cost around $350 per month plus bandwidth. There is no need for licensing or offshore incorporation either!

Play for Free Websites
Free-play websites do not accept real money wagers from players. Thus, player activity is not gambling because the element of consideration is missing. This means that you can secure affordable hosting in the United States, and you don’t need to worry about offshore licensing and incorporation. Best of all, you can still earn substantial revenues as an affiliate, meaning that you earn commissions for driving traffic to pay casinos or other non-gambling sponsors.

Compelling games do not merely attract visitors to a website, but they entice them to stay there and become emotionally invested in the product or services of your sponsors. The click-thru rate (CTR) of on-screen game advertisements has proven to be much higher than the average for traditional banner advertising.

Each affiliate program is different, but you can generally earn 20% to 50% of the lifetime profits from any player you send your sponsors. According to the Gambling Webmaster School: “The average player loses over $500 per month. Up to half of that could be paid to you! Over a one-year period, each of the casinos could pay you approximately $3000 per player. That is your commission! If you get just 20 people a year, that’s approximately $60,000 annually to you!”

The Internet Gambling Report states that casino and bingo sites could all benefit greatly from targeting “free-only” players. Many savvy pay casino operators are now launching free-play websites to drive traffic to their pay websites. In essence, they are becoming their own affiliates because there is so much money to be made!

Subscription Sites
Websites that do not accept real money wagers but instead charge a monthly membership fee, may or may not be considered gambling sites from a legal point of view. The deciding factor appears to be whether paying the membership fee gives the player an increased probability of winning. A website could therefore have an optional membership fee that gives members certain perks and conveniences that don’t affect the outcome of the games.

There are many sites that charge monthly membership fees to players, including Pogo. An optional Club Pogo membership gives players access to more games and other features. Players at Pogo redeem the points they win for raffle tickets in prize drawings. Other sites offer cash prizes to free players, and have an optional Club Membership as well. Membership fees at such sites are typically paid on a monthly basis with discounts offered for quarterly or annual subscriptions

For a full transcript  this is link   http://prowagersystems.com/start.htm

I am not quite sure I agree with your assessment on the legality of having a private site run like a private club and charging a small membership fee.   First, there is nothing that would be offered on this site of monetary value.  All that is offered on FatCat is a good time.  This is not a play for money site and it never will be as long as that is outlawed by the U.S. government.  U.S. citizens cannot even legally play in money games on other sites that are able to offer those games.  There are also no prizes with any monetary value at all being offered.  There is also no opportunity for players to win any tangible assets other than these virtual chips that have no value and no plans for that in the future.  There is also no option to redeem these virtual junk chips for anything of value at all other than to "donate" them to sponsor free games for other members, so they can accumulate more free junk virtual chips.

It would be a private "membership site" and any fee would be more like club membership dues, solely to cover expenses.  I am not an attorney, but it appears that what you have posted pertains to free websites offering play for money games or an opportunity to cash in chips for some other tangible asset.  They can do neither of those things on FatCat.  I do not see anywhere online that says that is illegal.

Toto only offered this option as a last resort if members did not wish to support the site at least in some small way.  We might get to a point in time where that is the only viable option to keep FatCat online if there are not enough members willing to donate what is required to cover expenses.  Otherwise, Mufasa will have only one final option and that will be to take this site down.

I am sure everyone hopes there will be enough donated to keep this site online, so we can all continue to enjoy the games.

QB

P.S. If this would apply to anything it would apply to holding donator games, where only members that donated to the site were eligible to win even more free junk useless virtual chips than others on the site. That would be more of an issue and the only thing I think might be applicable. Giving a bonus edge to those players who contribute. Being a private site would prevent that from opening the site up to any liability in that regard. Honestly, I don't believe with all the millions of chips out there a donator game should be necessary. How many more free millions of this virtual garbage does everyone feel they need.

kygal37 wrote:

Queenbee wrote:

Toto was just offering up the "pay to play" option as a last resort if the members did not band together to all try to donate whatever they can afford to help the site stay online.  If that is $2 or $5 or whatever it is then that is just what it is.

This thread was started solely to appeal to the members to support a site they really enjoy, so it can stay on line.  Pay to Play would be a last resort and no one here wants this site to go down that road if it doesn't have to.  

If people are not willing to back the site financially the only options are to shut it down or offer it as a "pay to play" private gaming site.  I am sure some members might leave, but the site would not have any choice but to operate that way.  No one has said anywhere that everyone needs to contribute the same amount and clearly some have extenuating circumstances that might mean they are not in a position to donate at all and that would be something they would need to talk to Mufasa about to be exempt from being expected to donate to support it.  

There are only three options:

(1) Members voluntarily donate whatever they can to keep the site on line so that Mufasa has enough to pay the monthly server fees;

(2) The site becomes a "pay to play" site with enough members willing to pay to do that to keep it on line; or

(3) It shuts down permanently because there is not enough donated to cover the monthly server fees.

Everyone is free to give their opinion.  Everyone is also free to donate or not based upon their own means and whether or not they wish to contribute to the site being able to stay online.

We are all just players and we are just hoping that people that play here care enough about the site and enjoy the games enough to be willing to help it stay online.

#2 is out of the question: USA PROHIBITS PAY TO PLAY SITES!!!.  Donations to keep the site open are greatly appreciated as I stated in my donation games posting prior to ething happening and I will be sending in my donations as well.  For those who cannot donate.  don't worry, just play and have fun.  

That would be a "pay to play" in money games and not a membership dues private site where there are no rewards of any tangible value to anyone on the site and they cannot be cashed in for anything of any monetary value or reward.  That is actually what he was suggesting.  You would have to pay a small amount of dues to have access to the games and that to my knowledge is not illegal.

Toto was just brainstorming as that being an option if the members didn't try at least make some small contribution.  No one wants to see it go that way.

take care.

Q

I agree with QB on what you have cited, Sharron. No gray areas.

So many opinions sheesh....If you can donate to keep this site up and running then donate..If ya can't,you can't...

Let's all cool our jets here...Mufasa posted he will be the new owner...Let him throw out his game plan after all it's his sight...

Sheesh, pay this, pay that,crap let the guy get settled in as the new owner in the meantime if you can donate i am sure it will be greatly appreciated...

Whew Take a deep breath ev1 give him some space wow......I haven't been coming to offsite then i log in see this make me think wth is goin on here...Wow...

Speaking for myself i will send a donation and try to help,why? Because i like to log on and play with the ppl i have played with for years...No doubt if your active on fatcat i would hope you would want to see fatcat survive!!!

Let's let mufasa dwell on this...His site his terms would you agree??

JMO
BigC

Btw,for the record.....The Cancer games and the Remembrance games i posted to all fatcat millionaires and they responded...I know some were asked at the tables but,for the most part the majority stepped up and done it in the forums...Those that don't visit the forums is really very small majority..The heavy percentage of active players are also active in forums as well...

I am not saying you didn't ask ppl Mm i know some were asked i even asked at the tables..Fact remains most stepped up in forums...I salute you all for making the games...Just goes to show what a body of ppl can do..The Fatcat Nation...

BigC... I see the purpose of this thread as a means to share opinions on possible options going forward. For the most part, this continues to be a very good discussion and a source for Mufasa to draw from in deciding what is possible for the future of FatCat. Hopefully, even more members will chime in with even more options.

BigC wrote:

So many opinions sheesh....If you can donate to keep this site up and running then donate..If ya can't,you can't...

Let's all cool our jets here...Mufasa posted he will be the new owner...Let him throw out his game plan after all it's his sight...

Sheesh, pay this, pay that,crap let the guy get settled in as the new owner in the meantime if you can donate i am sure it will be greatly appreciated...

Whew Take a deep breath ev1 give him some space wow......I haven't been coming to offsite then i log in see this make me think wth is goin on here...Wow...

Speaking for myself i will send a donation and try to help,why? Because i like to log on and play with the ppl i have played with for years...No doubt if your active on fatcat i would hope you would want to see fatcat survive!!!

Let's let mufasa dwell on this...His site his terms would you agree??

JMO
BigC

COPIED FROM THE FATCAT MAIN FORUM

BigC;1431351 wrote:

I posted on offsite but would rather use these the original cfc forums..Glad you got it up and running...

Sounds like your brainstorming and to be honest sounds good...

The TLU is essential i think in helping you and if you can enforce the TLU more will be discussed and openly between all the reps from each team..

I don't know what,why,or how it all the sudden stopped...But it would be a great help to you i would think..

Contact me if in need of more help..Idk if this is going to go out in shares or your going to buy it out right..I am willing to help..

I also want to say i am sorry i haven't donated more before now..I will have a check in the mail.....

I really like fatcat it's been part of my life for 9 yrs now..

I hope more players will step up and help the site we all love to play on keep running......

It's up to US the players/members of fatcat to donate whatever you can to keep the CFC train chuggin along....

Thank You mufasa sounds like you have a game plan in mind...
I couldn't think of any better a person to run/own fatcat then you..

You're dedication to CFC is beyond compare...

Please Donate fatcatters

Sincerely, Thank You
BigC

Just out of curiosity, what kind of plan exactly are you waiting for?  Mufasa spelled it all out really clearly.  The post you made in this forum made it sound like you knew of no plan when clearly Mufasa has put out a plea for donations to cover $300 a month in server fees (and that does not include any upgrades or anything else) and hopefully more for upgrades.  You even posted in the main forum on February 18th acknowledging his post (see above).

There are exactly four teams on this site with possibly enough active members to be eligible to be part of the TLU.  What is it you think the TLU can add that members offering their opinions and hopefully helpful ideas in threads like this aren't able to add, and why do you think they are less helpful to him because clearly you think it is all about the TLU?  Why should those four teams decide anything for the entire site, and what makes their opinion more important than all the players on the small teams or the ones playing solo?  When the TLU was established there were a lot more teams with much larger active rosters than are currently playing on FatCat.  Why not take a site wide vote on issues, or why can't members email Mufasa at support and share their opinion?  Does the TLU have some sort of magic wand, and what is there to decide on right now when Mufasa isn't even sure the members are even willing to donate enough money to keep the site online?  Just curious......

Holy cow..yeah it's good to open up for discussion and share new ideas..I did read his posts all of them the day he posted them....
All i was saying is let him get settled in as the owner he did say he had to think on some things if i recollect right...Stop trying to make me look like the bad guy here...

I do not let these chips run my life..They are game chips no different then monopoly paper fake money..In this case digital points...

Discuss away please by all means don't me stop some ya..You all have some great idea's....

As for the TLU Q,it worked well before and yes we did have more active members..I know i was a rep in it and gave my rep spot up to let another team mate have a shot at it...
The TLU can be maneuvered to work for all teams if the site Fatcat Nation doesn't want it so mote it be...

But don't make me look like a dumbass as if i can't read these posts mufasa has put out.....

Now say what you will i am done here i will let the super minds of fatcat get it all figured out..

vgl ev1

DO THIS? DO THAT? YADA!! YADA!! JUST DONATE FOR NOW.

there is now a gofundme page to take donations......

https://www.gofundme.com/pokerfatcat-net

Can you put the gofundme address where it will always be at the top with its own heading.

Good idea Eddie

357eddie wrote:

Can you put the gofundme address where it will always be at the top with its own heading.

i have already put it in the scrolling banner so it can be seen while reading anywhere in the forum.